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SSG David Bellavia Speaking at CPAC
A clip from the Vets for Freedom forum at CPAC 2008.
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Added: Feb 16 2008 In: middle_east
By: skye820 
- Tags:
- CPAC,
- Iraq,
- Afghanistan,
- convention
- Views: 4050 |
- Votes: 2 |
- Recommendations: 0 |
- Comments: 9
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Comments - sort by newest to oldest
Can't argue with that.
Posted Feb-16-2008 by "e4bannan" (R)
This should be stickied. : |
Heh, cant be argued my foot.
Give it time, someone will waltz right in here and proceed to prove him right. : D
Posted Feb-16-2008 by "Tinbuk3" (R)
I understand that he has a personal tie to the conflict, and he wants to see it through. If my friends had died doing this job, I would want to see the job done. My problem is ignoring the facts: that the decision to invade Iraq was a bad one (arguably an aggressive war), that after Baghdad fell Pentagon planners dropped the ball (looting, insurgency, disbanding of the Iraqi military and Baath Party), that Petraeus's methods should have been used years earlier, and the other mistakes. I don't want the Iraq War glossed over in the history books, like an unfortunate mistake. I want everyone to recognize the arrogance and incompetence of the Bush Administration on this one, just as I want everyone to see the problems with Kosovo. Also, Kosovo is very different from Iraq. Billions of dollars didn't go unaccounted for in Kosovo. There weren't (to my knowledge) fraudulent war profiteers there. There wasn't this degree of incompetence (civilian planners).
Posted Feb-16-2008 by "JayStubbs" (R)
The decision to liberate Iraq was a bad one? By what metric and information do you make such a blanket statement? Both OBL and Zarahiri both have claimed that Iraq is the 'line in the sand' - quite frankly this was the BEST possible place to strike - at the heart of the beast.
With any conflict there will always be airchair generals who look back and proclaim that if we went left instead of right, the outcome of the battle would have been different. War is , what war is - there has never been in the entire history of human conflict a 'perfect' war. To hold this particular conflict up to unbelievable standards of perfection in wartime is simply dishonest and fraudulent. I expect nothing less from those who oppose the war on such grounds.
I want the story of Iraq to be told, and yes, I want the blatant distortion of this conflict by those who suffer from BDS to be vilified. Thanks to SSG Bellavia and thousands upon thousands of others, Iraq will not be used to hang a particular administration or to belittle the actions of the soldiers who liberated the nation.
Kosovo is still a quagmire - how many billions were and are still wasted on this mess? How many times had NATO forces been caught moving drugs, weapons and prostitues through this mess? Oh, it is a shining example, all right, based on the evidence.
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "skye820" (R)
Love the articulate passion. The war in Iraq is going to gify America with a real political class for the next 30 years we can be proud of. **** the baby boomer politicians, sanity and strength is what these new guys are about.
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "singlelife" (R)
The decision to liberate Iraq was a bad one? By what metric and information do you make such a blanket statement? Both OBL and Zarahiri both have claimed that Iraq is the 'line in the sand' - quite frankly this was the BEST possible place to strike - at the heart of the beast.
With any conflict there will always be airchair generals who look back and proclaim that if we went left instead of right, the outcome of the battle would have been different. War is , what war is - there has never been in the entire history of human conflict a 'perfect' war. To hold this particular conflict up to unbelievable standards of perfection in wartime is simply dishonest and fraudulent. I expect nothing less from those who oppose the war on such grounds.
I want the story of Iraq to be told, and yes, I want the blatant distortion of this conflict by those who suffer from BDS to be vilified. Thanks to SSG Bellavia and thousands upon thousands of others, Iraq will not be used to hang a particular administration or to belittle the actions of the soldiers who liberated the nation.
Kosovo is still a quagmire - how many billions were and are still wasted on this mess? How many times had NATO forces been caught moving drugs, weapons and prostitues through this mess? Oh, it is a shining example, all right, based on the evidence.
I said the invasion was a bad idea for the same reason people say it was "the worst foreign policy blunder in American history". For one, the reasons we were given all turned out to be false, except Saddam being an evil man. Some of these reasons were intentional lies (yellow-cake uranium from Niger, Prague meeting, aluminum "centrifuge" tubes, mobile weapons labs, etc.) No legitimate WMD, no legitimate links to terrorism (until we got there), no imminent threat to the US. Because of all this, America lost credibility in the international community, as well as the support of the American people (needed to fight any war) and the world in general. Not to mention that Iraq has tied up 150,000 troops (and billions of dollars) that could be used for the resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan, which is where we were attacked from, as you know. Also, WHEN did OBL and Zarahiri say this about Iraq? After we invaded? After jihadists flooded into the country?
Common sense mistakes were made in Iraq. For example, the disbanding of the military. What are thousands of unemployed, family-supporting men with no other skills than fighting, going to do when fired? In a country with high unemployment? Are they, perhaps, going to form a resistance? People warned that an insurgency would develop like this (Jay Garner), and that only the top tiers of extreme loyalists should be disbanded, but were ignored by arrogant and incompetent civilian planners (Rumsfeld and Bremer).
I don't want to hang someone with a war. I want my government to be accountable. I want them to admit mistakes, fix the problems, and move on. Instead they say there's nothing wrong, drag the problem out for years, and bring in Petraus to fix things.
I don't think Kosovo was a shining success, either, as you claim, although it hasn't been as big a fiasco as Iraq. From what I've read, NATO bombing caused more genocide and ethnic cleansing. People messed up, and the history books should acknowledge this. I'll admit it. I shouldn't though. I should take your legitimate facts and ignore them and say you have CDS. It would be easier.
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "JayStubbs" (R)
The decision to liberate Iraq was a bad one? By what metric and information do you make such a blanket statement? Both OBL and Zarahiri both have claimed that Iraq is the 'line in the sand' - quite frankly this was the BEST possible place to strike - at the heart of the beast.
With any conflict there will always be airchair generals who look back and proclaim that if we went left instead of right, the outcome of the battle would have been different. War is , what war is - there has never been in the entire history of human conflict a 'perfect' war. To hold this particular conflict up to unbelievable standards of perfection in wartime is simply dishonest and fraudulent. I expect nothing less from those who oppose the war on such grounds.
I want the story of Iraq to be told, and yes, I want the blatant distortion of this conflict by those who suffer from BDS to be vilified. Thanks to SSG Bellavia and thousands upon thousands of others, Iraq will not be used to hang a particular administration or to belittle the actions of the soldiers who liberated the nation.
Kosovo is still a quagmire - how many billions were and are still wasted on this mess? How many times had NATO forces been caught moving drugs, weapons and prostitues through this mess? Oh, it is a shining example, all right, based on the evidence.
I said the invasion was a bad idea for the same reason people say it was "the worst foreign policy blunder in American history". For one, the reasons we were given all turned out to be false, except Saddam being an evil man. Some of these reasons were intentional lies (yellow-cake uranium from Niger, Prague meeting, aluminum "centrifuge" tubes, mobile weapons labs, etc.) No legitimate WMD, no legitimate links to terrorism (until we got there), no imminent threat to the US. Because of all this, America lost credibility in the international community, as well as the support of the American people (needed to fight any war) and the world in general. Not to mention that Iraq has tied up 150,000 troops (and billions of dollars) that could be used for the resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan, which is where we were attacked from, as you know. Also, WHEN did OBL and Zarahiri say this about Iraq? After we invaded? After jihadists flooded into the country?
Common sense mistakes were made in Iraq. For example, the disbanding of the military. What are thousands of unemployed, family-supporting men with no other skills than fighting, going to do when fired? In a country with high unemployment? Are they, perhaps, going to form a resistance? People warned that an insurgency would develop like this (Jay Garner), and that only the top tiers of extreme loyalists should be disbanded, but were ignored by arrogant and incompetent civilian planners (Rumsfeld and Bremer).
I don't want to hang someone with a war. I want my government to be accountable. I want them to admit mistakes, fix the problems, and move on. Instead they say there's nothing wrong, drag the problem out for years, and bring in Petraus to fix things.
I don't think Kosovo was a shining success, either, as you claim, although it hasn't been as big a fiasco as Iraq. From what I've read, NATO bombing caused more genocide and ethnic cleansing. People messed up, and the history books should acknowledge this. I'll admit it. I shouldn't though. I should take your legitimate facts and ignore them and say you have CDS. It would be easier.
ALL the reasons we gave to liberate Iraq were valid and still stand - you stil do not understand or are willing to look at the mountain of evidene of Saddam's plans to fool UN inspectors and his clandestine WMD program.
(yellow-cake uranium from Niger, Prague meeting,
aluminum "centrifuge" tubes, mobile
weapons labs, etc.)
ALL proved to be absolutely correct - you don't want to have to admit a mistake publicly, do you?
No legitimate WMD, no legitimate links to terrorism - WRONG!
Read http://www.hudson.org/files/publications/murdocksaddamarticle.pdf
America lost credibility in the
international community, as well as the support of
the American people (needed to fight any war)
Bullshit - we never had, nor needed the support of the international community to begin with. Our biggest blunder was to abide by UN rules.
The MAJORITY of the US citizens support the liberation of Irag. I'd like to see the results of a national referendum on Iraq, and not some carefully vetted 'poll'.
which is where we were
attacked from, as you know...
Afghanistan attacked us on 9/11??? SIGH...all this time, the libs have been complaining that the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi....
I want my government to be accountable -
I certainly agree...I want every single Senator and Congressman that opposes this war on terror to be voted out of office and I will vote for the presidential candidate that will continue this crucial fight.
Also, WHEN did OBL and Zarahiri say this about Iraq?
The Most Important And Serious Issue Today For The Whole World Is This Third World War %u2026 Raging In [Iraq]." OBL.
Zawarhiri has made numerous statements prior to 2003 regarding a worldwide caliphate. You can research it yourself - if you know how.
Common sense mistakes were made in Iraq.
Common sense sees mistakes in ALL wars - it is the height of hypocrisy to hang Iraq and our soldiers by such mistakes. Again, please provide the details of a previous flawless war that serves as the model for your statement.
From what I've read, NATO
bombing caused more genocide and ethnic cleansing.
People messed up, and the history books should
acknowledge this. I'll admit it.
Wow, admittance after you have been outed is not quite good enough. Although, I did not read a word of this in your orginal statment. It takes a small person to make such an admittance. Thanks.
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "skye820" (R)
"ALL proved to be absolutely correct - you don't
want to have to admit a mistake publicly, do you?" It seems that I am not the one who can't admit that he's wrong.
Source acknowledging yellow-cake BS:
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/karon/article/0,9565,463779,00.html
Source acknowledging aluminum tubes BS:
http://webexhibits.org/bush/9.html
Source acknowledging Prague meeting BS:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007584
I'll quote my first post here, since you're accusing me of being "outed". "I want everyone to recognize the arrogance and incompetence of the Bush Administration on this one, just as I want everyone to see the problems with Kosovo." That's what I said. Hardly out "outing" on your part.
You're seriously going to argue that the 911 attacks didn't come from Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? You're seriously going to argue that Iraq was a "central front" before we got there? You're seriously going to argue that unilateral military actions are a good idea?
I have another point to make. Bellavia says that terrorists want to attack us because of the "audacity of our way of life". Here's a quote from the Department of Defense's's Defense Science Board:
"Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html (quote)
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf (source of quote)
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "JayStubbs" (R)
That Hudson Institute link sounded fishy when I started reading. I soon found out why.
Herbert London, president of the Hudson Institute, was the Conservative candidate for Governor of New York in 1990.
http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=LondHerb
Scooter Libby was a senior advisor there, before his legal troubles.
http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=publication_details&id=3830&pubType=IntSec
Irwin Stelzer was a senior director and fellow. He wrote a book on called "Neoconservatism"
http://www.stelzerassoc.com/
I think they're a little too biased for me to take seriously.
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "JayStubbs" (R)
"House to House" by Bellavia. When he says he has seen the enemy up close he knows what he is talking about.
Posted Feb-17-2008 by "thunderchunks" (R)