Tuesday 28 April 2009
by: Steve Weissman, truthout
Asked what he thought of Western civilization, the nonviolent Mahatma Gandhi famously replied, "I think it would be a good idea." Unless millions of Americans now demand better, we can say the same of "the rule of law." What a good idea it would have been, but - like the tooth fairy - it will not exist, not when competing priorities get in the way. The balancing - and trimming - is well on its way.
Should a special prosecutor hold Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld accountable for violating the law against torture when they specifically authorized waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions and sexual humiliation of detainees? "No one is above the law," President Obama repeatedly tells us. But, prosecuting Bush & Co. would tear the country apart, the Republican chorus chimes in. And it would create a precedent for prosecuting future presidents whose policies we might not like, just as in a banana republic.
Should Congress or a truth commission investigate torture and other war crimes so they will never happen again? Better not, the White House tells us. The country needs to look ahead and not to the past, and the administration needs to focus on fixing the economy and creating a universal health care system.
Should Congress impeach former Deputy Attorney General Jay Bybee, now a federal appeals court judge, for giving his superiors the legal arguments they wanted to justify the torture they had already decided upon? Absolutely not, his defenders insist. Lawyers must feel free to give officials their best legal advice, and officials must feel free to get the legal advice they need.
None of these alternative priorities are trivial. America should never criminalize differences over lawful policies. Obama and his administration should focus on ending the economic crisis and fulfilling his campaign promises. And senior officials should feel free to consult with government lawyers. But all these priorities must remain within legal limits, and none of them justify giving a pass to those who commit criminal acts, no matter how high their office. Either we uphold the rule of law or we make political priorities paramount. We cannot have it both ways, and we should stop pretending that we can.
The stakes here go far beyond whether or not we torture our enemies, our suspected enemies and then our own people, though these are obviously life-and-death concerns. What should scare us even more is whether or not we maintain even the façade of democracy.
In overriding the Geneva Conventions, other treaty obligations and American laws banning torture, the Bush administration explicitly claimed that the president could do whatever he thought necessary to full his constitutional obligation to defend the country. He was the decider in chief, and neither Congress nor the courts could overrule his decision. As Jay Bybee's torture memo put it, "the President enjoys complete discretion in the exercise of his Commander-in-Chief authority and in conducting operations against hostile forces."
Right-wing legal ideologues call this view of sweeping and unchecked presidential power "a strong unified presidency." Those who believe in it would turn our chief executive into an elected monarch, and some proponents would even grant him or her the right to call off elections in time of crisis, real or contrived. Following this grandiose view, President Bush usurped powers that the Constitution does not permit, and his administration used those powers to commit other crimes, from torture to invading Iraq on a pack of lies. Do we prosecute Bush's power grab as a criminal violation of the Constitution? Or, do we accept a crime bordering on treason as just another policy decision with which we may or may not disagree?
Either way, we set a precedent. Prosecute Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld and we confirm that every future leader must operate within the rule of law. Give them a pass and their successors will feel free to rule as they will. The choice is clear, if only Americans have the courage to pursue it. My guess is that we do not, and that we will soon come to rue it.
Click to view image: '840fbfdac5d1-bushapprovedtorture.jpg'
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"No one is above the law," President Obama repeatedly tells us as he appoints criminals to his cabinet.
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bylonewolf6972 (688.06) lonewolf6972 View Channel Send Message
(4)
Tim Geithner apparently is. Its so damn disgusting its already been forgotten in the Dems blizzard of shit flying all over Washington.
Please note that no one answered my question on how to obtain critical information from a fanatical killer. Same old bullshit dancing through the daisies from the left. Offer no solutions to the process but blast the process at the same time.
Posted Apr-29-2009 Byyorba (1021.58) yorba View Channel Send Message
(1)
If I don't pay my taxes I go to jail.
Posted Apr-29-2009 Byibnkelb (27.82) ibnkelb View Channel Send Message
(1)
Seriously man, I was kind of kidding around. I just find it a little annoying that politicians don't pay their taxes. I pay mine. It is ironic that the man in charge of the money made a mistake with his own money. It doesn't matter to me if he is Democrat or Republican, I am a political atheist. How you made the leap to torture I have no idea as I am certainly against torture, but I am also against tax evasion. I would certainly not consider them to be equal on any level. I am certainly familiar More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 Byibnkelb (27.82) ibnkelb View Channel Send Message
(0)
This post is bullshit, rife with the usual left appeasement and naivete that is pie-in-the sky ridiculous and self-defeating. Lets just ask the bad guys to cooperate with us, that sould work. I'm sure they'll be reasonable, right? What a bunch of fools. War is hard work done by hard men. There is a simple way to define torture: "does it cause a significant physical injury?" If it doesn't, then just STFU and let us keep your worthless asses safe by known non-torturous methods like More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByTenaceus (231.68) 
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(3)
You cant tell a liberal anything about the difficulties of war, they dont want to hear it...but they sure will jump in line with code pink to protest.
Posted Apr-29-2009 BySnookmaster (131.10) Snookmaster View Channel Send Message
(1)
its not even about that... its about breakin the fuckin laws that we put into affect years ago. why should circumstance allow for the breaking of a law.. you dont even see that because the conservatives on this website are more narrow minded than a gnat.. if you break a law.. you go to jail.. otherwise i want to get a get out of jail free card to.. there has been no major threats to the US most of this torturing was done for pure sadism.. nothing productive.. these people were kept in cells for More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bycrkise (125.74) crkise View Channel Send Message
(-1)
By your two-faced, hypocrytical, and far left logic Tim Geithner should be in jail. You know who Tim Geithner is, don't you?
Posted Apr-29-2009 Byyorba (1021.58) yorba View Channel Send Message
(1)
thanks for proving my point about you right wingers.. you didnt address anything in my post.. would you crack under torture and say anythign to get it to stop.. or am i gonna get some bullshit response like.. my colors dont run or im tough and wouldnt give in.. torture just isnt a justified way of getting accurate and proper info. and those subjecting people to it shouldnt be held above the law.. simple enough.. im neither right wing or left wing.. cause you are both fuckin nuts and narrow minde More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bycrkise (125.74) crkise View Channel Send Message
(-1)
I'd want my government to be waterboarding in order to save lives. If it doesn't work, then do something else to them...like make them listen to Nancy Pelosi press conference hi-lites.
Posted Apr-29-2009 Byvicsemprini (1285.98) vicsemprini View Channel Send Message
(3)
It won't get prosecuted at any high level because the democratic leadership is involved in this up to their eyeballs. Pelosi and Reid knew. The prosecutions will be limited to the highest level possible that keeps the democrats out of trouble. The democrats will probably cut deal with the GOP to decide who goes to jail. It will most likely be some military non-coms or maybe and officer or two. There may be even some low level bureaucrat in the Bush administration, but it won't go any farth More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByAvgDude2 (452.22) AvgDude2 Send Message
(3)
For those who refuse to see that these were criminal acts against the Law of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and Treaties, there is only one word that truly fits their position, treasonous. These traitors acts and ideas are at the heart of every anti-American and ungodly work that is turning the tides of hope for a better nation toward our demise and ultimate death as a land of free peoples. They are also active in the destruction of all that is sacred and righteous within this nations foundi More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bypatriot7955 (119.00) patriot7955 View Channel Send Message
(3)
I love this little picture in the article. It's kind of like those slasher movies, the victims are still being beaten even though they are unconscious. I don't think they are after information, they are just being sadists.
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bybuttkracken (682.28) buttkracken View Channel Send Message
(1)
It really comes down to understanding the US Constitution, its still Law of the Land isn't it. Its not open to interpretation on certain things.
Torture good or bad for the country ? If someone could point me to the clause that says torture is necessary to secure the country.
Now ask yourself how many MANDATORY courses in public or private schools there is on the study of the US constitution ?
Why so few:
The g-crudes don't want "We the people" to know how much power the masses hav More..
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bysinner713 (166.40) sinner713 View Channel Send Message
(1)
"progressive" thinking is a shitstain blemish on the national conscience
Posted Apr-29-2009 Bysauerkraut (422.28) 
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(1)
Well said.
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByIntelligencer (85.78) 
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(0)
Yea, the guy they said was waterboarded once, turned out to have it done 185 times in a few months. You get people telling you what you want to hear to make it stop, it made people tell the spanish inqusition that they worshipped the devil and later made puritans confess to being witches.
Even Isreal stopped using torture a long time ago because they found out it doesn't work.
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByNurb (1005.92) 
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(-1)
Hey, Cheney had the best excuse, no, that is, the best justification of them all: "It worked". Don't you love that? That's what every criminal can say - until he is caught and tried, of course.
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByWalter_Kronkite (98.96) Walter_Kronkite Send Message
(-6)
They all need to be tried for crimes against humanity otherwise we have no credibility and no protection for the international community if a republican becomes presicent again.
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByIntelligencer (85.78) 
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(-5)
How would you ask a fanatical killer what he knew about imminent attacks on US soil?
Posted Apr-29-2009 Byyorba (1021.58) yorba View Channel Send Message
(5)
Do you think raping children in font of there mothers and filming it was a good idea?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=019_1240694776
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByIntelligencer (85.78) 
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(-4)
Waaaaaa
Posted Apr-29-2009 BySimpleSiren (786.84) SimpleSiren View Channel Send Message
(2)
There has NEVER been a ticking timebomb scenario outside of the show 24. Of course there WAS a memo about one attack....
Posted Apr-29-2009 ByNurb (1005.92) 
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(-3)