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"Winning The Cultural War" By Charlton Heston

An article from 1999 that bears a message in great need of repeating.



Speech by Charlton Heston
"Winning The Cultural War"
Harvard Law School Forum
February 16, 1999

I remember my son when he was five, explaining to his kindergarten class what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, "pretends to be people."

There have been quite a few of them. Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and two geniuses, including Michelangelo. If you want the ceiling re-painted I'll do my best. There always seem to be a lot of different fellows up here. I'm never sure which one of them gets to talk. Right now, I guess I'm the guy.

As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: If my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds of those great men, then I want to use that same gift now to re-connect you with your own sense of liberty ... your own freedom of thought ... your own compass for what is right. Dedicating the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of America, "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure."

Those words are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great civil war, a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say what resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the pulsing lifeblood of liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this country rise from wilderness into the miracle that it is.

Let me back up. About a year ago I became president of the National Rifle Association, which protects the right to keep and bear arms. I ran for office, I was elected, and now I serve ... I serve as a moving target for the media who've called me everything from "ridiculous" and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man." I know ... I'm pretty old...but I sure Lord ain't senile.

As I have stood in the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms, I've realized that firearms are not the only issues. No, it's much, much bigger than that. I've come to understand that a cultural war is raging across our Land, in which, with Orwellian fervor, certain acceptable thoughts and speech are mandated.

For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 -- Long before Hollywood found it fashionable. But when I told an audience last year that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride, they called me a racist. I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe. I served in World War II against the Axis powers. But during a speech, when I drew an analogy between singling out innocent Jews and singling out innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite.

Everyone I know knows I would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I asked an audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was compared to Timothy McVeigh.

From Time magazine to friends and colleagues, they're essentially saying, "Chuck, how dare you speak your mind. You are using language not authorized for public consumption!" But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys-subjects bound to the British crown.

In his book, "The End of Sanity," Martin Gross writes that "Blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, and new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction. Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something without a name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they don't like it."

Let me read a few examples.
At Antioch college in Ohio, young men seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at each step of the process from kissing to petting to final copulation ... all clearly spelled out in a printed college directive. In New Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide who had been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDs --- the state commissioner announced that health providers who are HIV-positive need not... need not ... tell their patients that they are infected.

At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of the school team "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to local Indians, only to learn that authentic Virginia chiefs truly like the name. In San Francisco, city fathers passed an ordinance protecting the rights of transvestites to cross-dress on the job, and for transsexuals to have separate toilet facilities while undergoing sex change surgery. In New York City, kids who don't speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to learn their three R's in Spanish solely because their last names sound Hispanic.

At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where thousands died at Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that college officially set up segregated dormitory space for black students.

Yeah, I know ... that's out of bounds now. Dr. King said "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of us on the March said, "black." But it's a no-no now. For me, hyphenated identities are awkward ... particularly "Native-American." I'm a Native American, for God's sake. I also happen to be a blood-initiated brother of the Miniconjou Sioux. On my wife's side, my grandson is a thirteenth generation native American ...with a capital letter on "American."

Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the Washington D.C. Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while talking to colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, "niggardly" means stingy or scanty. But within days Howard was forced to publicly apologize and resign. As columnist Tony Snow wrote: "David Howard got fired because some people in public employ were morons who (a) didn't know the meaning of niggardly,' (b) didn't know how to use a dictionary to discover the meaning, and (c) actually demanded that he apologize for their ignorance."

What does all of this mean? It means that telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind. Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate ideas, surrender to their suppression? Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what they really believe? It scares me to death, and should scare you too, that the superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason.

You are the best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge. And as long as you validate that ... and abide it ... you are - by your grandfathers' standards - cowards.

Here's another example. Right now at more than one major university, Second Amendment scholars and researchers are being told to shut up about their findings or they'll lose their jobs. Why? Because their research findings would undermine big-city mayor's pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of millions of dollars from firearm manufacturers. I don't care what you think about guns. But if you are not shocked at that, I am shocked at you. Who will guard the raw material of unfettered ideas, if not you? Who will defend the core value of academia, if you supposed soldiers of free thought and expression lay down your arms and plead, "Don't shoot me!"? If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion. If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe. Don't let America's universities continue to serve as incubators for this rampant epidemic of new McCarthyism.

But what can you do? How can anyone prevail against such pervasive social subjugation? The answer's been here all along. I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C., standing with Dr. Martin Luther King and two hundred thousand people. You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. Respectfully, of course. Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how to think or what to say or how to behave, we don't. We disobey social protocol that stifles and stigmatizes personal freedom. I learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr.King ... who learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau, and Jesus, and every other great man who led those in the right against those with the might.

Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in VietNam. In that same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous law that weaken personal freedom.

But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you put yourself at risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must be willing to be humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent of the police dogs at Montgomery and the water cannons at Selma. You must be willing to experience discomfort. I'm not complaining, but my own decades of social activism have taken their toll on me.

Let me tell you a story. A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so - at least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend. What I did there was against the advice of my family and colleagues I asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer" - every vicious, vulgar, instructional word:

"I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF,
I GOT MY HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF.
I'M ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF,
I'M ABOUT TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..."

It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read the rest of it to you. But trust me, the room was a sea of shocked, frozen, blanched faces. The Time/Warner executives squirmed in their chairs and stared at their shoes. They hated me for that.

Then I delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming with racist filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old nieces of Al and Tipper Gore: "SHE PUSHED HER BUTT AGAINST MY ...." Well, I won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left the room in echoing silence. When I read the lyrics to the waiting press corps, one of them said "We can't print that." "I know," I replied,"but Time/Warner's selling it." Two months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll never be offered another film by Warners, or get a good review from Time magazine. But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not just talk.

When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself ... jam the switchboard of the district attorney's office. When your university is pressured to lower standards until 80% of the students graduate with honors ... choke the halls of the board of regents. When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on the playground and gets hauled into court for sexual harassment ... march on that school and block its doorways. When someone you elected is seduced by political power and betrays you...petition them, oust them, banish them. When Time magazine's cover portrays millennium nuts as deranged, Crazy Christians holding a cross as it did last month ...boycott their magazine and the products it advertises.

So that this nation may long endure, I urge you to follow in the hallowed footsteps of the great disobediences of history that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants, and yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and a few great men, by God's grace, built this country.

If Dr. King were here, I think he would agree.

Thank you.


http://www.theblessingsofliberty.com/articles/article9.html


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Added: Nov-5-2007 
By: KYOSHOFIEND
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Tags: Cultural war, America, Charlton Heston, Constitution, NRA, Racism, Rights, Human, Harvard Law School
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  • Great post and a great speech.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • gtr1956: "
    Epitope: "
    gtr1956: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    You can't legally buy an assault rifle in the US. Are you one of those people that call every semi-automatic rifle an assault weapon? You should get a job at the nearest news stati More..
    my point exactly. Whenever I argue about the assualt rifle ban the L.A. bank shootout always comes up as why assualt rifles should be banned. Nevermind those were illegal full auto AK-47s that were illegal even without the assault rifle ban... the assualt rifle ban does nothing but chip away at our rights by making superficial laws about guns strictly based on how they look. It has nothing to do with the firepower or type of gun they really are."
    I can only agree with you. But some people think that passing another law is going to cause all the guns in the country to disapear. I just hope some of these gun grabbers walk into a robbery situation, then realizes that the police aren't there to help. Hopefully they won't get hurt, but have you seen some of the violent robberies on LL? In this country, even if you are in the right shooting in self defense, your still going to be sued by the worthless perps family. Why, because they are allowed! Well guess what, I carry concealed because I'm allowed!"
    AMEN!!! :D

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • He comes across very conservative but I actually like this guy alot. He tells it like it is most of the time.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • afreegreek: "
    gtr1956: "
    Epitope: "
    gtr1956: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    You can't legally buy an assault rifle in the US. Are you one of those people that call every semi-automatic rifle an assault weapon? You should get a job at the More..
    my point exactly. Whenever I argue about the assualt rifle ban the L.A. bank shootout always comes up as why assualt rifles should be banned. Nevermind those were illegal full auto AK-47s that were illegal even without the assault rifle ban... the assualt rifle ban does nothing but chip away at our rights by making superficial laws about guns strictly based on how they look. It has nothing to do with the firepower or type of gun they really are."
    I can only agree with you. But some people think that passing another law is going to cause all the guns in the country to disapear. I just hope some of these gun grabbers walk into a robbery situation, then realizes that the police aren't there to help. Hopefully they won't get hurt, but have you seen some of the violent robberies on LL? In this country, even if you are in the right shooting in self defense, your still going to be sued by the worthless perps family. Why, because they are allowed! Well guess what, I carry concealed because I'm allowed!"
    shoot to kill, it's less expensive that way."
    Good idea, but the family will still come after you in court. You will be drug tested, and depending on the DA in your county, you may STILL be prosecuted to keep the local population from rioting.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Suraci: "Since this has turned into a gun debate...

    Last Monday night around 10pm, there was a helicopter buzzing around 150 ft above my house with a bright spot on the apartment complex down the street. It went on for a good 10-15 minutes. I still don't know what went down but my wife and kids had no problem going to sleep knowing I was on the couch watching tv locked-and-loaded.

    They probably would have felt a bit different it I was sitting there with the Energizer Bunny or some Franks Hot Sauce in my hands.
    "
    B More..

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • popehat: "Ah, common sense - a very rare commodity these days. Every group has it's share of lunatics whether they be left wing or right wing. Both the Republicans and Democrats need more men like this."
    Absolutely. *applauds*

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Suraci: "Since this has turned into a gun debate...

    Last Monday night around 10pm, there was a helicopter buzzing around 150 ft above my house with a bright spot on the apartment complex down the street. It went on for a good 10-15 minutes. I still don't know what went down but my wife and kids had no problem going to sleep knowing I was on the couch watching tv locked-and-loaded.

    They probably would have felt a bit different it I was sitting there with the Energizer Bunny or some Franks Hot Sauce in my hands.
    "
    s More..

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Ice T was fond of the right to bare arms too it appears.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • lasrever: "
    Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What constitutes an assault More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement."
    Exactly. Another thing that needs to be considered is the ease with which an AR15 (non automatic fire M16) and other such weapons can be converted to full auto fire.
    http://www.keepshooting.com/booksandvideos/firearmmanuals/ak47_conversion_manual.htm

    It's as easy as getting a kit or a manual as show in that link.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What constitutes an assault rifle according to politicians More..

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • When a cop says "freeze" is it his badge or the gun that makes the bad guy freeze... end of debate...

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What constitutes an assault rifle according More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Yukkione: "
    lasrever: "
    Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What consti More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement."
    Exactly. Another thing that needs to be considered is the ease with which an AR15 (non automatic fire M16) and other such weapons can be converted to full auto fire.
    http://www.keepshooting.com/booksandvideos/firearmmanuals/ak47_conversion_manual.htm

    It's as easy as getting a kit or a manual as show in that link."
    ban anything that is made of steel or any steel tubing under 1 inch in diameter!

    Anything semi auto can be modded to full auto. It is called engineering. You can also modify just about any car on earth to go 150mph and end up killing people that way too. Should we outlaw all cars above 50 hp?

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • popehat: "Ah, common sense - a very rare commodity these days. Every group has it's share of lunatics whether they be left wing or right wing. Both the Republicans and Democrats need more men like this."
    True dat'

    I think we can all find individual issues that we would disagree with Charlton or each other on, but overall we all need to have the courage and backbone to stand-up against our opposition and more importantly, realize that has consequences and be willing to accept those co More..

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Yukkione: "
    lasrever: "
    Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What consti More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement."
    Exactly. Another thing that needs to be considered is the ease with which an AR15 (non automatic fire M16) and other such weapons can be converted to full auto fire.
    http://www.keepshooting.com/booksandvideos/firearmmanuals/ak47_conversion_manual.htm

    It's as easy as getting a kit or a manual as show in that link."
    Now why in the world would you want to even post links showing how to do it? One more time, LAW ABIDING CITIZENS DON'T ALTER THIER ARMS.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • lasrever: "
    Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What constitutes an assault More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement."
    but the whole point of the 2nd amendment is to let the people have some defence against an oppressive government.

    Point out a documented time in history when the rights to gun ownership have been taken away and good things came about from it and I'll shut my trap.

    I still have the issue of National Rifleman at my house that has a personal letter from the chief of police of Australia saying the ban on guns there caused a huge spike in crime and robbery. Britain banned handguns over 10 years ago and handgun crime is up about 100% since before the ban. Explain that one...

    One of Hitler's first acts as leader was taking away the right to own guns as well.

    I agree guns cause alot of harm to people. But a tyrant, oppressive government is worse.

    Canadians have guns and almost no gun crime. I think the problem is in the culture, not the guns. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

    Besides, how many assualt rifles are even used in crimes. Not many thugs have $2,500 to toss down on a nice rifle to go rob 7-11 for 100 bucks...

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Took the words right out of my mouth grt1956. ^^^^^

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    You can't legally buy an assault rifle in the US. Are you one of those people that call every semi-automatic rifle an assault weapon? You should get a job at the nearest news station in your area, you'll fit right in.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • KYOSHOFIEND: "Took the words right out of my mouth grt1956. ^^^^^"
    besides what low life criminal is going to buy a $2,000 AR-15, and then break it open and start messing with it to make it full auto just to commit some petty crimes?

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • lasrever: "
    Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What constitutes an assault More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement."
    There are a lot more people in this country that disagree, that's why the're legal.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • however, I do admit that back in highschool a buddy and I modified a .22 ruger rifle to be full auto. Only catch was that it would not stop firing until it was out of ammo. He had a 50 round mag for it too. To say it was fun to shoot was an understatement.

    It shot so fast that every now and then a shell would go off before it was fully seated causing a big mess in the gun. He built and sold ruger rifles at gun shows so he had tons of spare parts though.

    And believe it or not we commite More..

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • gtr1956: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    You can't legally buy an assault rifle in the US. Are you one of those people that call every semi-automatic rifle an assault weapon? You should get a job at the nearest news station in your area, you'll fit ri More..
    my point exactly. Whenever I argue about the assualt rifle ban the L.A. bank shootout always comes up as why assualt rifles should be banned. Nevermind those were illegal full auto AK-47s that were illegal even without the assault rifle ban... the assualt rifle ban does nothing but chip away at our rights by making superficial laws about guns strictly based on how they look. It has nothing to do with the firepower or type of gun they really are.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • Hijacked to a 2nd amendment arguement. Oh, well.

    EXCELLENT speech by Mr Heston. Too bad not ONE of the presidential wannabees has 1/2 the common sense of that man.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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  • lasrever: "
    Epitope: "
    lasrever: "I agree with a lot of his views -- but not the one on assault rifles and other deadly weapons

    pistols, yeah that's alright -- but he wants no five day background check and prefers loosening existent gun control laws (that are hardly enforced already)"
    the things they use to define "assualt rifles" are retarded. Full automatic guns were outlawed long before the "assualt rifle" ban came along.

    What constitutes an assault More..
    I think this nation is too reliant on guns, anyway.

    There are such things as mace, taser guns, tasers, bats, martial arts training, knives, etc. Also people should learn more about diffusing violence, in general -- would be a good high school requirement."
    I think we are too reliant on microwaves.

    Posted Nov-5-2007 By 

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